Endless column inches are devoted to think pieces and hot takes on the rise of China, but genuine understanding and meaningful conversation continue to elude us. Under his nom de plume Murong Xuecun, Hao Qun is one of China’s most celebrated authors, a genuinely independent voice in fiction and non-fiction. He recently left China to publish Deadly Quiet City: Stories from Wuhan, Covid Ground Zero, which cuts through speculation to tell real stories of intimate experiences of Chinese citizens during an epic global tragedy. Now in Australia, Murong joins Linda Jaivin (The Shortest History of China) and Louisa Lim (Indelible City: Dispossession and Defiance in Hong Kong) for a conversation that goes beyond broad media commentary, with the BBC’s Frances Mao.